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Post by 88ss on Feb 5, 2005 19:37:05 GMT -4
I know that using spare/dummy tires in front is not legal due to the speed rating on them.
Is using a dummy tire rim and a front runner with tubes illegal? I guess the question is - are the dummy wheels speed rated or the tires on them?
Rob
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Post by canadian94gt on Feb 5, 2005 21:04:04 GMT -4
subscribing. like to know also
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Post by Site Admin on Feb 6, 2005 8:54:39 GMT -4
Good question! We all know that the tire is only designed to be used as a temporary spare to get you home at a maximun of 50 miles at a maximum of 50 MPH. Had not given the rim much thought but as far as I know there is no speed rating on an automobile wheel rim. The manufactures could not give you a rim to use on the highway that was not approved for highway use in Canada regardless of the temporary nature. My guess would be that the rim is designed and approved just like the rest of them on the vehicle. The only dfference is the width and the instructions for use.
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Post by sam on Feb 6, 2005 13:59:07 GMT -4
You need to look at the bead part of the rim. I use to build atv trailers and used temporary spares on them, because the rims are built sturdy, not for looks,but I soon found out that some of the rims had a different bead surface and would not accept an ordinary passenger tire,also some of the temporary spares are sized in metric.(GM temporary spares) Just a few things that I have noticed over the years. SAM
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Post by 88ss on Feb 7, 2005 16:07:20 GMT -4
Don over at the other site got this information from the IHRA regarding the dummy wheels -
FROM OUR INBOX
From: "Baker, Michael" <mbaker@ihra.com> To: "Don Phillips" <info@maritimedragracing.com> Subject: RE: T-Bird temp spare wheel Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 08:03:41 -0600 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I would not think they would be legal based upon their intended use and speed. Only OEM or SEMA approved aftermarket wheels should be used in a drag racing application. ---------------Original Message------------------------- From: Don Phillips [mailto:info@lmaritimedragracing.com] Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 10:40 PM To: Baker, Michael Subject: T-Bird temp spare wheel
Question: Are the narrow aluminum "temporary spare" rims from a Ford T-bird legal if they have frontrunners and tubes mounted on them? I need the "official IHRA position" on this question as I have a lot of people waiting for the answer. Don Phillips Tech director Cape Breton Dragway
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Post by Site Admin on Feb 7, 2005 17:59:47 GMT -4
Interesting reply. It seems a bit on the wishy washy side to me.
He says he does not think they would be legal but states that only OEM or SEMA approved ones will do. I think I see where he is going with this however any wheel rim supplied by the car manufacturer is an OEM rim. It would be doubtful that any rim would be SEMA and OEM approved at the same time since SEMA means Speciality Equipment Market Association (aftermarket).
Any rim must be rated to withstand the driving forces applied like any other on the car. It is the tire that has a limitation and that is mostly based on the fact that the tiny tire upsets the handling and cornering ability of the car. As strange as it may seem FMVSS Sec. 571.120 Standard No. 120 indicates that there is no requirement for manufactures to even mark or label a wheel rim if used only on a passenger vehicle. The ones I checked today on 2005 Ford did not seem to be Stamped OEM nor were the regular wheels, so what does that tell you. Canadian DOT are also do not appear to have any articles in their code on the subject.
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maritimedragracing
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Post by maritimedragracing on Feb 8, 2005 17:49:30 GMT -4
I just wish that IHRA had given us an absolute "no" or "yes" to this question. I thought those rims are originally designed for a low speed application like just long enough to get you to a service station. My theory is that some car magazine must have had this as one of their "tips and tricks" sometime because our Tech email has had dozens of emails in a short time asking about those very same wheels. Hence the reason I thought it was time for the IHRA Tech Director to settle it once and for all. But all we got there was a firm "maybe" As for me - I'm starting to understand what the term "dummy wheels" really means.
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Post by Site Admin on Feb 8, 2005 21:21:26 GMT -4
I took the liberty of contacting Mr. Baker looking for a more difinitive answer. He quickly replied and for that I thank him however he chose to not answer the question regarding if IHRA has made a ruling on the subject. Reading between the lines I would presume IHRA has not previously made a ruling banning the use of these rims and it appears at this time he is not willing to make a ruling and it seems he is only offering a "on safe ground" personal opinion therefore I guess our tech guys will need to make their own decision.
Here is the e-mail and the reply:
Tue, 8 Feb 2005 16:00:21 -0600 From: "Baker, Michael" <mbaker@ihra.com> To: bonnar@tri-star.ca Subject: RE: Compact Spare Rims The wheel is designed for emergency purposes and based upon that I feel it is not intended for racing use. The tire and wheel have a max speed in all owners manuals. I feel that this is not a good option on a race vehicle.
-----Original Message----- From: Mitch Bonnar [mailto:bonnar@tri-star.ca] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 4:58 PM To: Baker, Michael Subject: Compact Spare Rims
I see a question regarding the use of compact spares for drag racing fronts was posted to you by my esteemed tech director friend from the Cape Breton Dragway. Your reply seems a bit vague. Could you tell me if the IHRA has actually made a ruling on the use of these rims previously or is a new subject.
Here is why I ask:
You say you do not think they would be legal but state that only OEM or SEMA approved ones will do. I think I see where you are going with this however any wheel rim supplied by the car manufacturer is an OEM approved rim.
Any rim must be rated to withstand the driving forces applied like any other on the car. It is the tire that has a limitation and that is mostly based on the fact that the tiny tire upsets the handling and cornering ability of the car. As strange as it may seem FMVSS Sec. 571 Standard No. 120 indicates that there is no requirement for manufacturers to even mark or label a wheel rim if used only on a passenger vehicle.
The ones I checked today on 2005 Ford did not seem to be Stamped with any OEM data other than a part number nor were the regular wheels, so what does that tell us. Canadian DOT also do not appear to have any articles in their code on the subject.
It is not a big issue but there are a number of people already using these rims and more asking about their legality so it would be nice to be put to bed either way.
It would be helpful if you could shed more light on this subject.
Thanks.
Mitch Bonnar Executive Director GreenField Dragway
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Post by 88ss on Feb 8, 2005 21:38:13 GMT -4
Sorry for the headache guys - I just so happen to have 2 spares and a decent price on some front runners w/ tubes. I had no idea it would not be answered easily - and if it turns out badly - sorry ford guys w/tbird rims!!
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maritimedragracing
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Post by maritimedragracing on Feb 9, 2005 10:12:50 GMT -4
The fat lady didn't sing just yet!!! Since IHRA does not want to commit to a yes or no answer I just sent an inquiry to the NHRA Division 1 office to see if we can get an decision on this thing once and for all. I will post the reply here and on the maritimedragracing board too. With all the time I'm spending trying to determine the legality of those wheels I'm beginning to think that I'm the "dummy" here.
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maritimedragracing
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Post by maritimedragracing on Feb 9, 2005 12:22:38 GMT -4
From the NHRA Division one office; Bob Lang - Tech Director:: From : Bob Lang <BLang@nhra.com> Sent : February 9, 2005 10:55:37 AM To : <editor@maritimedragracing.com> Subject : RE: T-Bird temp spare wheel No, They are not legal since they are not DOT approved.
--------------------------Original Message--------------------------------- From: Don Phillips [mailto:editor@maritimedragracing.com] Sent: Wed 2/9/2005 5:57 AM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To: Bob Lang Cc: Subject: T-Bird temp spare wheel Question: Are the narrow aluminum "temporary spare" rims from a late model Ford T-bird legal for bracket racing in S/Pro or Pro or even Street class if they have proper frontrunners and tubes mounted on them? The "legality" of these wheels has caused a major flap on our Message board and now I need the "officialNHRA position" on this question. There are a lot of people waiting for the answer. - Don Phillips - Tech Director Cape Breton Dragway
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maritimedragracing
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Post by maritimedragracing on Feb 9, 2005 12:38:45 GMT -4
With a "maybe" NO from the IHRA and a definate NO from the NHRA I now consider this issue closed. "Dummy wheels" will not be accepted at any Cape Breton Dragway event in 2005.
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Post by canadian94gt on Feb 9, 2005 16:33:10 GMT -4
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Post by canadian94gt on Feb 9, 2005 16:54:43 GMT -4
I also sent an email to Ford Motors Company to ask them about if their wheels were DOT approved and if it was just the tires that were for temporary use only. I explained it was for Drag racing purposes so they knoe the whole story. I asked in their opinion with a regular tire and tube if they thought these wheels were as safe as any other wheel if this size.
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maritimedragracing
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Post by maritimedragracing on Feb 9, 2005 17:24:33 GMT -4
If someone on a Mustang message board says they're NMCA and NHRA legal they must have gotten different answers from the Tech People than I did. NO matter - as of now I officially wash my hands of this subject. Just remember they are not legal at Cape Breton Dragway. To change this policy you will need a NEW Tech Director and that can be done very simply - Just tell me you want the job and it's yours. I'm starting to hate it.
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